Explain your understanding of the difference between the “damaged self” of secular therapy and the “stubborn soul” of SoulCare.

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    • #95337870

      Damaged self in Secular therapy is a view that we all have past experiences or traumas that have damaged us and are the root of problem presented on the outside.

      The Stubborn soul in Soul care its someone relying on themselves and others to fill the emptiness inside of them and doing whatever it takes to make themselves and their situations better with out God.

    • #95337680

      The damaged self is not really responsible for any of his behaviors. They are imposed on him by circumstances. No repentance is needed, nor is dependence on God. On the other hand, the stubborn soul is one made in the image of God and yet which attempts to manage life on its own because God was found not reliable. This thinking requires repentance and can move to a better relationship with God and others. The pain of circumstances is the same in each understanding, but the responsibility and solution for each is entirely different.

    • #95336314

      The damaged self is a concept of the secular psychollogy that states that we are innocent souls damaged by our adverse environment and that we need to be fixed in order to be all we were intended to be. The stubborn soul of SoulCare is a scriptural concept that points our stubborn fallen will, depraved state and willfull innerself against the Lord’s will.

    • #95335543

      They are two very different theories, concepts, and therefore models of care.

      The damaged self is the pervasive world-propagated way of handling problems, faults, and hurts by honing in on fixing what is wrong, on restoring the person to psychological health usually based on what’s been done to them, who’s hurt them, etc.

      The stubborn soul is the God-centered way of addressing our hurts, habits, and hang ups brought on by others sins or our sins. It originates from the flesh and can never be fixed by fleshly means. It’s a spiritual issue that can only be addressed by spiritual means.

    • #95333515

      The “stubborn soul” approach focuses on our prime identity – as a child of God – rather than any secondary identities, e.g. as a “damaged self”. It reminds us that abundant life (in God) is within reach. It highlights the fact that its our stubborness and desire to achieve happiness using own tools and strategies that’s keeping us away from living a life of abudance.

    • #95332102

      Typically, a hurting person has gone through a painful situation, is expressing resulting behavior and now sits before a professional who is placing a pinpoint on what happened so they can fix the problem. Compare that with someone in the same circumstance that is meeting with a knowledgeable person who desires this troubled person to have an appetite for God and trust Him more than anything.

    • #95323766

      Damaged sled the person is a innocent victim

    • #95321733

      I think the damaged self view of secular therapy influences our mind to think of ourselves as a victim. I think there is something in our flesh that feels vindicated that someone understands what we have gone through which I think just serves to feed our fleshly emotions and that doesn’t bring true healing. We feel justified in feeling anger over our painful experiences and that doesn’t help us truly heal. It just intensifies our freshly emotions.

      With the soul care approach, it helps us see that there is something far better that we can strive for rather than feeding our negative emotions. Learning that we are image bearers of God, gives a perspective that we (and all that we are) are precious in His sight and that gives us a purpose. Rather than trying to heal a damaged self, we can learn to celebrate who we are and all that God created us to be. Rather than starting at zero to “heal” something that is “damaged”, our perspective can be that we start where we are (someone with a story) and turn that story into a vision of how we can best take our experiences and use them for the glory of God. That takes us away from being self absorbed and angry or hurt to being someone whose appetite for God is stronger than their appetite for themselves. Only then can we stopped being self absorbed with the pain of our past.

    • #95319691

      Stubborn soul is our own desire to take charge and tackle life without taking God into consideration. We at times refused to trust in Him, we are in constant spiritual warfare against fleshly desires.
      Secular therapy believes that everyone is born innocent, being damaged by unfortunate life experiences and attempted to restore goodness in people which is fundamentally in contrast with human sinful nature of trying to be like God or thinking we’re in control of our own life, simply be God.

    • #95319212
      Stephanie Havenski

      Damaged self is something that is of this world, that I believe no matter how much counseling or therapy can never really be restored. Stubborn soul, refers to the only one that can actually touch your soul. He is the only one that can fully take away the hurt, the pain, and give you the peace to overcome and live.

    • #95318855

      “Damaged self” is the theory used in the secular world while “stubborn soul” is what should be used in the soul care world. Damaged self refers to the below the tip of the iceberg of a human being supposedly innocent in nature. That soul has been affected negatively and as a result has been damaged. While Dr. Crabbs spoke of this I was thinking of how its almost as if it were a decoy usually presented by the person receiving care.

      “Stubborn soul” is the reality that we are born with a fallen and stubborn flesh that is not innocent. The reality of a soul below the top of the iceberg that is wounded decided to respond in a way to life that rejects God. “I will live without God in this area of my life, I will find my own way to serve my needs without Him.

    • #95318449

      Secular therapy assumes that every person starts out as an innocent child, full of potential.
      But difficult/damaging circumstances, or situations have caused them to become wounded or damaged. Therefore, they need to be fixed so they can move on with their life and live out their potential.
      SoulCare follows the Biblical worldview, that we are all guilty, we all have a fleshly dynamic, stubbornness that determines to do life without God. It is this flesh-dynamics that is at the root of all our presenting problems.

    • #95315482

      When the term “damaged self” is brought up it seems to refer to the human ability and false hope that certain techniques can be employed to fix what is broken. The “stubborn self” expression on the other hand is quite different. It shows that through humility and the seeking of God-supernatural change can occur as we all realize how we came into this world in sin and need Jesus to help us through our trials.

    • #95315023

      The damaged self model assumes that the one who has had bad experiences started out as an innocent pure hearted individual. This person then had something bad happen to them and they now are “damaged” and are victim of circumstances and the goal is to somehow repair the damage. I can see this dragging on in a person’s life as blame and un-forgiveness. The concept of the stubborn soul does not assume that a person started out as an innocent person but as a person whose soul has been fractured by the fallen nature each of us inherit since the fall of Adam and Eve in the garden in Gen 3. Then begin to see that we have been trying to make life work without God. Starting with this concept one can then acknowledge trying to deal with or solve these issues apart from God has no vision of what God may be able to do within those circumstances. One can then see oneself as disappointed by circumstances and demanding justice, but, because of Christ’s redemption and ability to “work all things together for good to become more of what He wants us to be” Rom 8:28,29 one can begin to envision what he wants to do within us in those circumstances.

    • #95314938

      The secular view of therapy is to see people as victims of their circumstances and doesn’t take into account that people are also responsible for their actions and behavior towards others. This only further drives a person towards self-centeredness as they work on fixing or curing themselves through therapy. Their root problems then lie outside of themselves with no need to take responsibility for their own actions in life and how they, too, also cause pain to others. Soul care acknowledges that all people are flawed/broken from birth because of the fallen world they are born into. Therefore, all people are in need of redemption from the start and not because of the wounds created by others or life circumstances, but because all have sinned and fallen short of God’s glory.

    • #95313997

      Secular society would say that we are born innocent and our environment causes pain and damage which we need to fix. So Care says that we need to see our stubborn soul which demands that are needs being met and hate our flesh that wants to handle life and needs met without God. Then we can find and rejoice in redemption where the love of Christ In our inner soul stimulates us. We are able to share this with the person we’re ministering to. Christ love He is released in us And at them, bringing kindness and ability to do good works and to love.

    • #95313480

      The damaged self idea demonstrates a victim mentality. The person feels justified in the bad ways she is acting because it’s not her fault. It’s because someone else damaged her soul.

      The truth is that we were all created in the image of God, but are fallen sinful creatures. We never naturally turn toward God in trust, but try hard to make life work without Him. This shows how our souls are stubborn and default to control and victimization. Sin must be hated, and image bearing honored to engage in a way that stirs up an appetite for God and makes the flesh less attractive.

    • #95313083

      The damaged self that secular therapy talks about likely stems from more humanistic approaches that believes the self is inherently good, but became damaged by external circumstances. The approach given by defining the soul as stubborn postulates that the self is actually inherently broken and gravitates toward and is filled with the sin defined in Genesis- the thinking that God is not enough, that He has withheld from us.

      I think this idea in SoulCare is very helpful for me because I have been discussing the topic of children with my friend, and she laughed and said that her children were not born innocents. In fact, as she describes them, they are incredibly demanding. They are little sinners who grow into bigger ones, without Godly intervention. Then I thought about this show I’ve been watching with Buddhist-like themes, that depicts the brokenness and striving within people, even the most virtuous ones, but that highlights that rebellion of the soul to the heavenly hierarchy, whose rule is sovereign, even if it appears unjust. I realized that ultimately, no matter how good we might be, all of us want something because we want to be fulfilled, no matter what it costs anyone else, and this stubborn desire is what drives us to strive and struggle. But perhaps, at the same time, this desire is also what drives us to God. As C.S. Lewis wrote, there is no need in this world that does not have a fulfillment, and our fractured selves wander looking for a solution on earth when we ought to be looking towards heaven.

    • #95312747

      The damaged self is looked at the bi-product of what has happened “to them” and how can therapy fix them. The stubborn soul is seeing how they’ve been damaged and they have a reliance on themselves because they’ve had to take care of themselves through the bad things that have happened in life. They don’t trust in anyone or even in God to help them.

    • #95301902

      The idea of a damaged self, is that we were somehow perfect or innocent, and we would have stayed that way if these hurtful and difficult circumstances had never happened. In this understanding, we struggle as adults because of the pain brought about by other humans, and we have to do work to fix those problems.

      However, with SoulCare, we understand that we are fallen, sinful, broken people. No matter what happens to us, we want to make life work for ourselves, in our own way, without God. Whether we had a fairly easy childhood or a terribly abusive one, we will tend to feel sorry for ourselves and blame others; when in reality, we are the ones who are too stubborn to surrender our demands to an Almightly God.

    • #95292139

      The secular therapy world puts all blame on someone else as to why you have said problem in most cases. Also, excuses the said behavior and
      portrays them as the victim. This creates in the mind to not take responsibility for actions.

    • #95290288

      “The damaged self” presumes the person is the consequences of circumstances, and he/she is a victim. The “person in need is innocent.” Hence, the secular therapy aim to ‘repair’ the damage.
      “The stubborn soul” believes we are all made in the image of God – we are image bearers, but our fallen self turns us away from God – to trust in Him. We are all sinners is our starting point and we need God. Hence, SoulCare focus on the ‘homeward’ journey towards the image of God that we have lost.

    • #95285239

      The damaged self incurres things of the innocent child who has the good things of life mixed with the not so good things as well.
      For instances you have a mother and father but because somewhere down the line. They lacked getting the proper care they needed,
      it feel on you. For instances in my life My Mother was raped at around fifteen down south and no counseling was ever given. Her father doubted that she was his because of rumors that made him doubt that my mother was his. But she was his in the end. I never met my grandfather until my mother passed away. On the day I met him, I simply said to him, might you be my grandfather Mr. Marshall and his response was might you be my oldest granddaughter Renee. My grandfather used to send things to my Mother oldest sister but not her. She felt left out. When my father and mother
      came together my father had issues with his father who never kept his promises and this frustrated and angered him. There was quite a lot of hurt between them two.
      Then the fighting started and many times I would cry in my room to God to stop this fighting because it was hurting me. My parents never knew me. I would sneak out of the apartment late at night
      to seek help from the priest and leave the downstairs door partially unlocked so I could get back in. Father McKinney would receive me settled me down give me something to drink and talk settled me down make sure I was relaxed and then send me home while watching me for safety measure and I would say I am okay. One night while fussy was going on, I deciding to crawl up in the bed once they were sleep and waiting there in the middle just in case they started up I would be right there . I must thought of being a Peacemaker I was only five years old. That morning my father woke up and found me in their bed. I heard my father but just continued to act sleep. My thoughts was if they started up I would be right there to look at them and let them know how must they were hurting me with all this arguing. I saw results of stabbings, bleeding, running for our lives. At one point we had to be separated for health reasons. My Mom began to hate my father and wanted me to write letters I just did not want to write. I loved them both and wanted this to stop. Children often think its there fault. My Dad began to show me how to play the piano. Then I began to play after school but they never came to my recitals which hurt while other parents would praise my work and that was nice but I wanted my own parents to attend and be proud of me. I was beat for looking like my father. Told to write letters unbecoming to any parent. because f how my mother felt. This was my damaged self I came away from playing piano which I should not have, It was a part of me growing and flowing to continue but I felt useless. I am 67 years old now. The stubborn soul thinks it can find its way without God only to find out you can do nothing without God. So your soul find itself craving for the Spirit
      God not knowing what it is craving for filling unfilfulled. We can do all things through Christ who strengthen US. GOD created us all and we can not exist without HIM. i USED SCHOOL AS MY FOCAL POINT TO EXIST. School began my paradise so no one knew of my beatings, I would rush to school and dive into my school work it became my peace. I would travel in my mind to Paris, Ireland and any other place we were studying. I was glad we wore uniforms so no one could see my beating marks. As years went on I was asked =, How could I love my Mother and I said she didnt have everything she need to raise me neither did. It was not their fault. They couldnt give me what they did not have, I Love Them with all their inconsistencies

    • #95284694

      Secular therapy works on the premise that every human being is born innocent. They view subject as ‘damaged self’ corrupted by difficult circumstances or environment and just needs repair work. SoulCare however works on the theological statement of which we are all born sinners – image bearing depraved souls. We are to view subject as a ‘stubborn soul’ trying to make life work without God.

    • #95280582

      Damaged self is how a non believer would assess a person in need of counselling. It is the concept of a person having a near perfect nature and then being damaged due to external circumstances.
      The soulcarer works on the fact that nobodyi is anywhere near perfect without Christ but is too stubborn to acknowledge this

    • #95278249

      I believe the following will answer both a question above as well as the exercise we were challenged with midway through this class.

      What was stirred in you as you heard Dr. Crabb share part of his story regarding his parents? Suggest a response to him that reflects legitimate empathy to a disappointed image-bearer. Also, suggest a response that reflects your understanding that Dr. Crabb’s root problem is a stubborn soul.

      Brother, I am so sorry how are you are having to go through these hard experiences, of having a mother who is unable to express and maybe even feel her love for you as well as you deserve, as well as she ought, and a father, with all that we imagine her father‘s out to be, a father who has become needy and perhaps hasn’t been able to meet all of those deep needs in your life that you’ve long to be met. And thinking out loud, I wonder if you could be completely transparent, ruthlessly honest from the heart, what it is you would want to say to each of them? I wonder what it would feel like if you could simply share your feelings with them? (Pause, give my directee an opportunity to hear those words, to reflect on them, and respond if they would like.)

      I want to invite you to do here’s to take some time this week and maybe imagine, or even write down what you would like to say just the way you would like to see it.

      (Next session)

      What was that exercise like for you? What did you feel i emotional, what did you experience in your soul as you did it? What was it like for you to admit that your mom and dad are imperfect and that they offer an imperfect love?

      One of the early church fathers, I think I have echoed some of your thoughts. He said, “our hearts are restless until they find their rest in Him”. What do you think Saint Augustine May have meant by that statement. With the little that I know about St. Augustine I’ve wondered what it is that may have prompted him to write those words in his book called, Confessions. It seems to me that what he, and so many of the writers of scripture leaders to conclude, is that, at the end of the day our moms and dads, will inevitably fail and fall short of offering us, the deep love our soul seeks. And that this longing we have, this yearning, cry of the heart you have, it’s really a cry for a kind of love that only your Heavenly Father is capable of giving… what do you think about as I say those words, what are you sensing, what is stirring beneath the surface?

    • #93875
      Our Daily Bread
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