Many people assume that learning the theory and skills of SoulCare is all that is needed to become an effective counselor. Dr. Crabb begins with a very different assumption, that discerning the passions that rule within you as a SoulCarer is essential. What do you perceive to be the dangers of ignoring this assumption? Illustrate your reasoning with examples from your own life or create a scenario that illustrates it.

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    • #95340109
      Sherryl
      Participant

      I believe the dangers of ignoring the discerning passions that rule within me will cause me to assume that I’m adequate when I’m not. Just recently I was listening to a dear friend who is going through the disappointment of possibly having to give up the home her mother worked so hard for to the children of her stepfather. Sad to say her parents’ affairs weren’t in order to prevent this. And, as I’m listening, I’m remembering SoulCare and I’m beginning to ask myself what is happening inside me as I’m listening to her. What do I feel? What emotions am I feeling? What attitudes are rising to the surface? I know I was nervous, and I felt terribly inadequate. The first thought I had was I don’t know what to do or what to say. And of course, I offered the empathetic response, “that’s awful, I’m so sorry you have to go through this”. I didn’t even want to offer any advice or any suggestions. And, yes, she asked me to pray for her as she goes through this. However, I wanted to say to her that her difficulty, her adversity, her concerns, her troubling situation was an opportunity for her to know God and have an experience with Him that is so strong that enables her to walk in joy and peace in the midst of it all and to have a sense of purpose and meaning in her life. This situation, this problem, is second only to the first, which is God. I want to walk along with her on this journey and I know that I’m so inadequate and the vision I have for her is something I can’t make happen. So, the next time we speak I will acknowledge to myself and to God that I’m totally inadequate and trust Him to work through my inadequacy.

    • #95339913
      Kari Glemaker
      Participant

      If we ignore the passions that rule within us as we participate in SoulCare, we are in danger of being ineffective. One thing we may inadvertently do is minimize a problematic situation. If someone comes to us sharing about an issue with their teenager, we say, “All teens do stuff like that. Do you realize had bad it could be? You’ve got a good kid; this will pass.” In this case, we are leaning on the idea that we can say the right thing instead of looking at how this situation draws attention to our inner mess.

    • #95336131
      Amanda
      Participant

      Discerning your passions within yourself before giving Soul Care is essential because you need to hold yourself accountable to what your interior motives are behind helping someone. Making sure that your motivation is not driven by greed, success and status, or any other negative motives. You should be driven to help others because they are hurting and struggling, because you generally care about people and empathize with them. You should want to share the love of Christ with them. Not trying to fix them…only God can do that.
      In my experience, many times in the beginning of my walk with God, My ministry was so chaotic. I wasn’t seeing any results and it seemed no one even wanted to try to work on themselves. I became bitter and judgmental. Snapping at people when they wouldn’t do, or say, or feel the way I think they should. Now I realize that my codependency and low self esteem drove my motivation more that my love for Gods people. Because of my low self esteem, I was clinging to being the “FIXER” to make me feel better about myself, and when they didn’t do what I think they should be doing and I didn’t see the results I wanted to see, it began a chaos inside of me. Because I am codependent and I was basing my self worth and happiness on what I can do for others and what people think of me, I went on a downward spiral of depression and anger. All the mean while, the person I was “TRYING” to help is worse off then the were when they came to me. This proving that self evaluation of the passion behind soul care is important. Daily surrender and self examination is important for your well being and others around you.

    • #95334969
      Shane
      Participant

      There are passions within me that can easily derail the entire SoulCare experience. One person’s brokenness can touch my own mess in a way that I become completely subject to feelings, desires, and memories that I haven’t processed or been transformed in yet. When I’m in a pastoral counseling situation involving depression, because of my own experience with my mom, I’m immediately making judgments, having memories, and inflicting my values and experiences upon them. And the entire experience just wouldn’t work if I were not aware of those things deep down. I want to fix them, help them see the errors of their thinking…all so they can get it right and I can feel satisfaction in knowing they finally know how to ‘get better.’

    • #95334563
      Joey
      Participant

      I naturally want to solve the presenter’s problem. I have often been slow to listen and be curious, offering “help” to make the problem go away. The problem here is that my answers will then be from my flesh or call on the flesh of the friend to work harder. This is the opposite of trusting and seeking the Spirit to work on the deeper desires of our souls.

    • #95334548
      Lisa
      Participant

      If I’m not in touch with my ruling passions, I will want to listen to another person in hopes of being the one who helps them so that I can feel more valuable to God and man. I probably won’t hear God very well if I’m not inviting Him to see my interior world with me, and I won’t be much help to the other person.

    • #95333506
      Elena
      Participant

      These days people sometimes talk about “professional intuition” and how we need to honour it rather than criticise is at amateur. For example, a very experienced teacher may have a “gut feeling” about something (e.g. a situation in class/with a pupil) which comes from some place wider than their set of skills and previous experience.
      Although gaining skills in deep listening may be very helpful, we need to move beyond any “mechanistic” approach to people work. If we believe that a human being is more than the physical responses and chemical reactions in their body or mind, then we need a different approach to their spiritual wellbeing. If it is about learning to inhabit a different reality with God, then it is God who needs to guide the process.

    • #95332671
      Omar
      Participant

      The danger of ignoring the passions inside is trying to do a work that God is much better at doing. This really surprised me and made me realize that I was on the right track and studying the right course. Because it’s not our adequacy, skills, knowledge, training or schoolling that make us capable of making a difference on people’s lives. But the work of the Holy Spirit and knowing how to collaborate with him and not obstructing his work is what would really make possible people heal and overcome difficult circumstances. That’s the risk of ignoring our internal passions that could obstruct the Holy Spirit’s work.

    • #95332348
      James
      Participant

      We tend to feel adequate when we try to fix people or issues or problems. The biggest obstacle I see in the church environment is the need, and Dr. Crabb so masterfully said this, was using single verse Bible verses or “quotes” To fix people. I call them reciting cliche verses.

    • #95321479
      Jim
      Participant

      .

    • #95320275
      Waynette
      Participant

      On November 11, 2017 my life changed. My doctor called to share the results of a biopsy I had done in her office a few days earlier. When I heard the words “invasive ductal carcinoma,” I was too shocked and numb to even shed a tear. In the days ahead I felt as if I’d been dropped in a thick forest and couldn’t see my way in any direction. My road was long, bumpy and rough, but I learned and grew to trust God more than ever.

      As a result of this journey, I volunteer now and call women who have just been diagnosed with breast cancer. I thought this process would get easier with time and experience. The truth is, I still feel inadequate to help these troubled women after many calls. I’ve tried offering empathy, advice, asked questions and prayed with almost every woman. I have a passion to reach these women and not only relate to them but ease their struggle and offer a peace in the midst of turmoil.

      I can see where knowing the inner person, or going beneath the waterline, is extremely important. I desire to not only be effective, but also allow God to use me in a way that goes beyond the tip of the iceberg.

    • #95319061
      Jillian
      Participant

      As a person that wants to truly care for my friends and others who I don’t know well, I do find myself giving superficial answers to their pain. I’m truly well meaning but I see how that it all above the waterline. Then on top of it, I can be judgmental if they don’t take my well meaning advice or if they are still dealing with the same problem over and over again. I’ve encouraged, given Scripture and offered prayers but frankly, I don’t know how to actually walk with them on the journey. I do, however, try to help them see that a relationship with God that is the center of their life is the only way to get through suffering.

    • #95318829
      Stephanie
      Participant

      God doesn’t call the equipped, he equips those whom he has called. I am far from being equipped to being a SoulCare counselor. But I also recall the first disciples were just ordinary people that were called to do extraordinary things. They were not well educated, didn’t have diplomas, large fancy titles. They were lay people with a heart for following Jesus. Every step of your life, you are going into it unequipped. If you are being led by Jesus to become a counselor, he never sets you up to fail.

    • #95317851
      Elaine
      Participant

      I do always feel that I am inadequate to serve as counsellor to fellowship and yet I am put in that position by my pastor and on the request of the members. Being a lay person working in corporate world, I do not think I am equip to do the ‘soul caring’ work. Hence using people management skills and trying to take courses to improve on it are some of my attempts to do better.

      It is very interesting to learn from Dr. Crabb that to be effective on soul caring, it’s not a matter of overcoming the inadequacy but rather embracing it. If I ignore the passions and always under the pressure of needing to prepare myself and be the best which is impossible. As I will not know how the conversation with others go and it will sure be stressful. I will miss out the opportunity to rely on the Holy Spirit’s guidance and journey on with others to become more like Christ.

    • #95317191
      Arlene
      Participant

      The danger of ignoring Dr. Crabb’s assumption is first and foremost that I will consider myself to be adequate for the job of doing SoulCare. I had a meeting with a friend in which she told me she was “overwhelmed”. Her house is a mess and she could rightly be called a “hoarder”. All I wanted to do was go home and have a rest after a very busy morning. So I told her I would pray for her and meet with her later in the week for lunch. So shallow! I was dealing with the ice above the surface of the water. I felt I was doing an adequate job by telling her I would pray. Consequently, she has not opened up with me again because I didn’t take the time to be real with her about my own inadequacies, which are many. I didn’t take time for her period.

    • #95315728
      Thu-van
      Participant

      The dangers of not discerning the passions that rule within you as a SoulCarer is that you maybe depending on your own wisdom, or you may be trying help in a very superficial manner.
      The result of both may be encouragement, or advice or counsel that doesn’t really go deep into another person’s true soul need.

    • #95314808
      Bobbi
      Participant

      When thinking about Trinitarian relating amongst fellow Christians, not just in the SoulCarer position, but in everyday life, there are several dangers I can think of if we ignore discerning the passions that rule within each of us. First off, we are not relating like the trinity if we do ignore those passions. If we want to become like Christ and relate like the trinity, we will need and want to be aware of the “issues” or passions that block us from relating like the trinity and quelch the Holy Spirit from moving out of our souls and into another’s soul. We can damage our relationships if we relate to another by using only the skills of SoulCare: we dismiss people’s concerns they bring to us, we can come off as haughty and arrogant, which in turn wounds others’ souls. If the “experts” in SoulCare relate with just their head knowledge, they will forgo the essence of what SoulCare truly is: A relationship modeled after the trinity that uses both head knowledge and heart wisdom empowered by the Holy Spirit to touch anothers’ soul. Without it, people will only feel more unloved, unheard, and less understood, which leads to further frustration that can spiral down very quickly, even to the point of depression and feeling like giving up. There will be no hope that things can change for them. People will then resort back to what they did before and just try harder to do what is right, but others will simply give up.
      I had a conversation with a former pastor of mine about some serious issues happening in the church. I brought to his attention what I thought was right, and maybe I was, but the spirit or energy that I had while talking to him pretty much invalidated everything I said because I did not discern the passions within me first. I came across as judgemental and condescending instead of speaking out of love and concern. This may not have been in a Soul Care situation, but if it had, I did more damage than good for the sake of being right.

    • #95313379
      Christina
      Participant

      Having a relationship with Christ is the most important. If we do not read the Bible and pray everyday it will reflect in our duties. Ignoring the passions inside us is detrimental. Providing care to others we need to take care of ourselves first. I do not mean this selfishly. Taking the time to pray fervently, acting in obedience to His Word (and pursuing godliness) can provide us with wisdom in how to counsel. If we can humbly recognize that we need Jesus everyday-we can better equip those to seek and pursue God passionately.

    • #95312478
      Karen
      Participant

      Discerning the passions that rule within us is essential to giving Soul Care because if we have the wrong motivation we will not see our need for God to meet us and the people we are ministering to. It is good to know empathy, but that alone does not lift us up out of the situation. If we try to give advice, especially when it is not asked for, we will be missing the real need. If we probe, we may stir up pain without the balm needed to help heal the pain. The real need is to see that we are flawed and sinful, that we need forgiveness, and that we need connection. Christ asks us to love God with all of our heart, soul, and mind and to love our neighbor as ourselves. Christ gave us this command out of His love for us and the world. We all have the shortcomings that do not allow us to do this. If we do not see our sin or mess, we will never know our salvation. This includes His forgiveness and the power of change. It includes replacing our lies and misbeliefs with His understanding, thoughts, and love for us and the person we are ministering to.
      The strongest part of this God has dealt with in my life was giving advice. He confronted this in me through more than one person and when I learned that my spiritual gifts were shepherding and prophecy. Learning the latter one startled me, but when I learned the strengths and weaknesses of these it helped. Seeing the way things should be and sharing visionary goals without special care around the way I shared, came across as critical. Combining that with deep care for the way I thought God wanted things was more hurtful than helpful. Trying to earn God’s love rather than receiving it first and allowing Him to minister and heal my woundedness also affected this. A new pastor’s wife even told me, People did not want to be helped or fixed the way I wanted to help. This harmed my relationships. IHe is the only one that can do this for us and for others.

    • #95312477
      Karen
      Participant

      Discerning the passions that rule within us is essential to giving Soul Care because if we have the wrong motivation we will not see our need for God to meet us and the people we are ministering to. It is good to know empathy, but that alone does not lift us up out of the situation. If we try to give advice, especially when it is not asked for, we will be missing the real need. If we probe, we may stir up pain without the balm needed to help heal the pain. The real need is to see that we are flawed and sinful, that we need forgiveness, and that we need connection. Christ asks us to love God with all of our heart, soul, and mind and to love our neighbor as ourselves. Christ gave us this command out of His love for us and the world. We all have the shortcomings that do not allow us to do this. If we do not see our sin or mess, we will never know our salvation. This includes His forgiveness and the power of change. It includes replacing our lies and misbeliefs with His understanding, thoughts, and love for us and the person we are ministering to.
      The strongest part of this God has dealt with in my life was giving advice. He confronted this in me through more than one person and when I learned that my spiritual gifts were shepherding and prophecy. Learning the latter one startled me, but when I learned the strengths and weaknesses of these it helped. Seeing the way things should be and sharing visionary goals without special care around the way I shared, came across as critical. Combining that with deep care for the way I thought God wanted things was more hurtful than helpful. Trying to earn God’s love rather than receiving it first and allowing Him to minister and heal my woundedness also affected this. People did not want to be helped or fixed the way I wanted to help. This harmed my relationships. IHe is the only one that can do this for us and for others.

    • #95311816
      Roy
      Participant

      It looks like the passions inside of me are going to have a pretty direct impact on the kind of care I give and the kind of outcomes that will occur. If I ignore these passions within me I am likely to have a goal different from what God has for my friend. I am an empathetic person. Without recognizing this passion my tendency will be to do and say empathetic things to try and make the other person feel better and more comfortable in the short term. I may not think about the fact that God may want to use this pain in my friends life to help them grow spiritually. If I’m not aware of this I will not be looking for what the Spirit is looking to do in my friend and I will not ask my friend to consider that.
      If I have not discerned that God’s purposes and my passions are at odds, an opportunity for God to do something in my friend will or could be missed.

    • #95309646
      Kandi
      Participant

      It is so important to understand the mess that is happening beneath and inside me as I walk through experiences with others so I don’t get in the way. One of the passions that I have burning inside me is that everyone is seen when they walk through the doors of church. I want people to know that they’ve been seen and are wanted. That stems from the mess deep inside me of rejection. If I can’t acknowledge the mess in my life and the “why” behind it, my thoughts and Soul Care for others will be very self-driven rather than God-driven. I find that as I talk with people as a lay person, I pray as I listen that God will give me questions or words to speak. I don’t want to impose my thoughts and my ambitions onto someone. As I dig in deeper to this study, I see that I need to even be more intentional with guiding that person more towards God and finding out more about their relationship with Him. This isn’t a new perspective, but it is a fresh perspective that takes the burden off of me needing to have answers and putting it on God who has all of the answers, peace, joy and understanding if we just choose to pursue him.

    • #95308885
      Diana
      Participant

      As Soulcarer, I must be cautious of what is my passion that boils in my heart for the person who comes to me and shares struggle. I friend of my mine called and wants to talk to me about her marriage and her relationship with her daughter. I have not heard her story yet, but in my mind and heart I am confident that with my marriage training, abilities and experience I can answer or give her solution as I felt I am equipped. However, when she told me about her struggle my mood swing into a judgmental mood, I even quoted Ephesians 5:22-23
      “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body” and there was the end of the conversation. My friend didn’t say anything and the conversation ends. Now I understand that Soulcare is not a spiritual activity, I need to examine myself and accept my inadequacy.

    • #95308794
      Langdon
      Participant

      Ignoring the discerning passions within me would be a very dangerous course of action. It would be dangerous not only in SoulCaring but in life. The passions that stir within us will always influence our actions. Even if we know the right action to take, our hearts must be sincere. We can not offer authentic kind words, or advice, without examining our own motives. A simple scenario would be one that happens often in secular counseling. The problem is heard, and the counselor points directions out based on learned training, but often misdiagnoses the problem. The symptoms may cease, but the problem, the heart problem, remains. Even worse, wrong advice is given due to wrong desires based on the passions within the counselor.

    • #95307922
      Lisa
      Participant

      I think the more aware I am of my own internal mess, the more inadequate I feel, and thus recognize my dependence on God’s provisions. Being aware of my motives while relating with others, keeps me checking in with God about how to proceed and what to say and what to leave unsaid. Acknowledging annoyance and frustration with the individual I am with frees me to be honest about what I am feeling, but by God’s grace speak in kind meaningful ways that invite another to taste God.

    • #95301832
      Jennifer
      Participant

      If we ignore what is going on inside of us, we will quickly be going to our own thoughts and strength to deal with the other person. We will look directly at them, and quench the work of the Spirit. He can move and speak through us, but if we are not taking a look at our judgments or our frustrations or our insecurities, we will be unintentionally trying to overcome those things instead of dealing with the person. If we can look at ourselves first, and deal with those issues between ourselves and the Lord, and also grow more as we encounter those challenges, then we will be more able to allow the Spirit to move through us in order to create deep and meaningful relationships and conversations.

      I’ve often approached peoples’ problems or concerns with my own “knowledge”; but once I took a look at myself, it was a deep-rooted sense of pride. As I began to see myself and my own heart as others would come to me, I was able to grow more in my Spiritual walk. As I did that, I have become increasingly more able to provide soul care to others, in a way that creates a real connection from my raw and soft heart to theirs.

    • #95291667
      Richard
      Participant

      This concept from Dr. Crabb is counterintuitive to most of us. If I know tips and techniques for administering Soul Care and think that I am offering them with skill and care, I am not. If I am leaning on my ‘own understanding’ while thinking I am being effective, I am quenching the Holy Spirit to do His job. I am also grateful to encounter this view of the role of the Holy Spirit. I recently heard a video message from Larry regarding his coming to understand the role and engagement he can and did enjoy with the Spirit in a way that I wanted to understand. These lessons are giving me a picture of this more clearly.
      I will forever remember a counselee who wanted to share an ugly secret with me about his sexual sin outside of his marriage. While he is telling me his story, I was feeling violated and dirty. I truly wanted to take a bath so to speak while hearing this man’s story. This was a clear picture, among many from my own experiences, of how I was sensing an accusation of this man in my eyes as he needed me to listen and know that I had no ability to do what I was there to do. This entire process is counterintuitive and at the point when I think that I understand it – I take a second look and I know it has eluded me again.

    • #95289774
      Geraldine
      Participant

      When a counselor do not know why he/she responds in a certain manner to someone’s sharing, he will end up merely dispensing a quick fix to prove his/her adequacy. If one is unware of one’s own passions, how is one able to help another truthfully to handle his/her passions? We short-changed ourselves in allowing the Spirit of God to minister through us, into the other person’s life.

      There was a lady who came for help frequently. Many of my colleagues knew and seen her. It was my first encounter, and having listened to her, I felt she wanted to live a more meaningful life, and to be accepted. In trying to help her connect, I realized that at the mention of her name, “everyone” ran off. How could this be? It was painful. I understand that she would ring people at the most unearthly hour. What should I do? I don’t want to give her my number. I reasoned within myself that she didn’t choose to be born with this medical condition. She, too is made in the image of God. How can we show acceptance of who she is, without causing further hurt.
      I have confessed to her my inadequacies and my fear. I decided to be honest with her – and let her know why is ‘people afraid of her, and why I can’t give her my number? At that point, it is as if a light came to her face – she teared and said, “Why did no one tell me honestly all these while?” She broke into a beaming smile. She was ready to live her life – and ceased trying to hard to win the acceptance of others through the many ways she has employed. I have learnt, “We needn’t be perfect living in an imperfect world.”

    • #95285767
      Renee
      Participant

      As a friend of mine were in company together and we discussed a topic in which we both took a part of more like forced into it not of our choice. i felt inadquate not knowing what level or to what degree
      my friend experience was incurred. but I told her what happened to me . Then she opened open broke down and told me hers as painful as it was. we as teenagers were forced into a abortion. Something
      we kept hidden within ourselves and told no one. Not knowing my speaking to her about what happen to me, was what she needed to get her healing and break through was what she really needed.
      just because I opened up didn’t mean she would. but God used this opportunity to help her. I suggested going to a retreat and she agreed. that weekend she opened up and let it out and she is healed today. who would know and this is where God has called me to minister to the hurting. My Apostle after hearing my childhood said God wants me into Pastoring little did I know I was already taken the course. Not pastoring over a church but in a church, we ourselves are inadequate but with Jesus all things are possible through Christ which strengthen Us. Our dangers are thinking we have it all together and not looking at the mess inside ourselves. we are still a mess too. we must seek God for the answers

    • #95283838
      Barbara
      Participant

      On Feb. 8/2021 I was wanting to feed my inner man, that I begin to scroll on the University website for some free classes. I came across SoulCare Foundations and the Holy Spirit said this one, ok I said, but its not free, not knowing what it entailed. So in July the Spirit brought it back two my memory and so I applied and here I am. When I look back over my life I have been that safe place for family and friends, not powerful though. Since taking this course the Lord has opened my eyes to the purpose of this course. I’ve been dumped on so much with others mess that I am a mess and I’ve always ask the question I’m not adequate to help these people I need help. God will always prepare us then the opportunity will come. I wasn’t aware I was doing counseling work never thought of myself as one. This course is helping me to look at myself. Without proper spiritual guidance we can mess people up more than they are, using our intellect or somthing we read from a book. After the fourth lesson I wonder how many people I’ve messed up with my theorys and Bible quotes. After completing this SoulCare Foundation 1, I’m hoping to expose the mess in my life that I can open up and let people know and exploe and discover and touch me.

    • #95281936
      Doreen
      Participant

      Before taking this course I was often stumped at what to say or do when people come to me with their struggles. I would go on my knees and ask God for any download big or small before another meet up! I didn’t want to just say what they want to hear but rather what God wants them to know. But I think what really touched them was my walking with them and praying with & for them. Helping them to hear from God directly. Reminding them how much God loves them and I care too.

    • #95279316
      Julie
      Participant

      Flesh-centered help rather than Spirit-centered.

    • #95279304
      Janet
      Participant

      There must be a desire within the counselor to know yourself more deeply . In order to be a soulcarer. one must be genuinely interested and show curiosity towards the for the right reasons , Become a “safe”person by developing a relationship and a vision for that person

    • #95279303
      Janet
      Participant

      A soulcarer needs to become a safe person to the counselee by developing a relationship and a vision for that person It is not enough to just desire what is best. There has to be a genuine curiosity and deeper relationship before offering help in any other way. The counselor must also assess whether our passions towards this soulcare are genuine,not selfishly inclined.For example, be sure you are not taking on this role to add a entry on your resume, or to get a pat on the back from a friend etc,or perhaps just for a feelgood

    • #95279024
      Carrie
      Participant

      I think the most significant danger is that I will be doing things on my own instead of letting the Holy Spirit do His work. In doing so, really change cannot happen and movement towards Jesus will most likely not happen.

    • #93867
      Our Daily Bread
      Keymaster
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